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Post by kayleearafinwiel on Sept 6, 2012 21:51:41 GMT -6
When you find it, let me know what it's all about!! *Is still a very confused kaylee who hopes muchly for commentary on ficlets!!!*
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Post by grey gazania on Sept 6, 2012 21:56:10 GMT -6
"Eärendil was a mariner that tarried in Arvernien; he built a boat of timber felled in Nimbrethil to journey in; her sails he wove of silver fair, of silver were her lanterns made, her prow was fashioned like a swan, and light upon her banners laid.Fairly straightforward on the ship's colors and shape. Silver sails, silver lanterns, swanship. Nimbrethil...would that be birch trees? And where's Arvernien again? Also, what's "light upon her banners laid"? Unless that means the light of the Silmaril? Avernien is where Earendil grew up after Gondolin fell; it's by the Bay of Balar. Here's a map: Nimbrethil was a birch forest there, so yes, the boat is made of birch. In panoply of ancient kings, in chainéd rings he armoured him; his shining shield was scored with runes to ward all wounds and harm from him; his bow was made of dragon-horn, his arrows shorn of ebony; of silver was his habergeon, his scabbard of chalcedony; his sword of steel was valiant, of adamant his helmet tall, an eagle-plume upon his crest, upon his breast an emerald.Panoply, I looked up. That means a full suit of armo(u)r. Ancient kings...does that mean it belonged to Turgon? To Fingolfin? Would this shield be mithril? Dragon-horn...didn't Earendil slay a dragon? Did that happen before or after this? So the arrows were made of black wood, then? habergeon - I looked this up too. Sleeveless chain mail shirt. I hope he has sleeves of some kind or his arms will be cold (and defenseless O.o) scabbard of chalcedony - So wait...chalcedony is a gemstone, isn't it? Or one of several - agate, onyx...I know there's more. His sword's sheath is made of stone? What? *Kaylee has a very confused* Stone scabbard, steel sword. Pretty heavy stuff here... Adamant...a diamond helmet? With an eagle plume on top no less (right?) Lol, what an image. And the emerald (the Elfstone?) "upon his breast"...so what, attached to his chain mail shirt? He was likely wearing some sort of tunic or tabard. Remember that you don't need to take the poem literally; within Tolkien's world it was written by Bilbo (with some tweaks from Aragorn), and neither of them actually ever knew Earendil. Also, it's a poem. Things may be exaggerated or changed from the historical fact to make for a more exciting story. until he heard on strands of pearl where ends the world the music long, where ever-foaming billows roll the yellow gold and jewels wan.Pearls and gold and jewels? Interesting image...but "wan"? 'Wan' usually means pale, or weak when referring to light. Compared to the Silmaril, most things would be wan. From Evereven's lofty hills where softly silver fountains fall his wings him bore, a wandering light, beyond the mighty Mountain Wall.Evereven? From a World's End there he turned away, and yearned again to find afar his home through shadows journeying, and burning as an island star on high above the mists he came, a distant flame before the Sun, a wonder ere the waking dawn where grey the Norland waters run.World's End! I KNEW there were pirates involved! That's what happens when Elves go around with pirates... Also, Norland? Evereven is another name for Eldamar. Norland is just the northern parts of a given land. for ever still a herald on an errand that should never rest to bear his shining lamp afar, the Flammifer of Westernesse."Flammi-whatnow? 'The Flammifer of Westernesse' is Earendil himself, sailing around with the Silmaril. He's the Light-Bearer. A good resource for this sort of stuff is the Encyclopedia of Arda.
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Post by kayleearafinwiel on Sept 6, 2012 22:01:59 GMT -6
thank you for all of that Grey!!! it really helps. ^_^ Kaylee
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Post by Elf of cave on Sept 7, 2012 16:04:28 GMT -6
Dragon-horn...didn't Earendil slay a dragon? Did that happen before or after this? No, but there were dragons in Morgoth's host duing the Fall of Gondolin, so maybe one or more of the survivors found the time to collect horns from the dead ones (likely non-fighters). habergeon - I looked this up too. Sleeveless chain mail shirt. I hope he has sleeves of some kind or his arms will be cold (and defenseless O.o) A haubergeon has sleeves that either goes to the elbow joint or the wrist. It would not be very pleasant to wear a normal mail on bare skin so he would have worn something underneath: a tunic and/or tabbard, as grey gazania said, and/or a gambeson (a padded jacket designed to be worn under mail og plate armour). Even if the haubergeon has short sleeves, Eärendíl was wearing a panoply which includes vambraces, so you don't need to worry about him not being protected well enough
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Post by russandol on Sept 7, 2012 17:11:55 GMT -6
Dragon-horn...didn't Earendil slay a dragon? Did that happen before or after this? No, but there were dragons in Morgoth's host during the Fall of Gondolin, so maybe one or more of the survivors found the time to collect horns from the dead ones (likely non-fighters). Eärendil did slay a dragon, according to The Silmarillion: "But Eärendil came, shining with white flame, and about Vingilot were gathered all the great birds of heaven and Thorondor was their captain, and there was battle in the air all the day and through a dark night of doubt. Before the rising of the sun Eärendil slew Ancalagon the Black, the mightiest of the dragon-host, and cast him from the sky; and he fell upon the towers of Thangorodrim, and they were broken in his ruin. Then the sun rose, and the host of the Valar prevailed, and well-nigh all the dragons were destroyed; and all the pits of Morgoth were broken and unroofed, and the might of the Valar descended into the deeps of the earth."
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Post by kayleearafinwiel on Sept 7, 2012 18:01:13 GMT -6
Thanks Russa, I knew I had read it somewhere...Not only did he kill a dragon, but the greatest of all dragons? wow, impressive. But that happened after this, then, so the dragon horn must have been from some other dragon...
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Post by Elf of cave on Sept 8, 2012 3:09:20 GMT -6
Eärendil did slay a dragon, according to The Silmarillion: "But Eärendil came, shining with white flame, and about Vingilot were gathered all the great birds of heaven and Thorondor was their captain, and there was battle in the air all the day and through a dark night of doubt. Before the rising of the sun Eärendil slew Ancalagon the Black, the mightiest of the dragon-host, and cast him from the sky; and he fell upon the towers of Thangorodrim, and they were broken in his ruin. Then the sun rose, and the host of the Valar prevailed, and well-nigh all the dragons were destroyed; and all the pits of Morgoth were broken and unroofed, and the might of the Valar descended into the deeps of the earth."Yes but that happens during the War of Wrath. The song is chronological and in the verse where dragon-horn is mentioned Eärendíl is setting out on his first journey with Vingilot, so in this part of the tale he hasn't even reached Aman yet.
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Post by russandol on Sept 8, 2012 5:22:47 GMT -6
Yes but that happens during the War of Wrath. The song is chronological and in the verse where dragon-horn is mentioned Eärendíl is setting out on his first journey with Vingilot, so in this part of the tale he hasn't even reached Aman yet. I clearly should have read the whole thread for context instead of doing a fly-by comment.
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Post by Elf of cave on Sept 8, 2012 6:28:43 GMT -6
I clearly should have read the whole thread for context instead of doing a fly-by comment. We all cut corners from time to time
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Post by kayleearafinwiel on Sept 8, 2012 9:08:54 GMT -6
I clearly should have read the whole thread for context instead of doing a fly-by comment. We all cut corners from time to time No, no! I agree with you both that he didn't slay the dragon until after this. But I was asking if 1. I was remembering right that he slew a dragon at all, *ever*, and 2. if it was before or after he set sail. So you were both giving me good answers Kaylee
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Post by russandol on Sept 8, 2012 14:42:09 GMT -6
We all cut corners from time to time Nice, diplomatic way to put it, thank you!
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