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Post by Darth Fingon on Oct 1, 2008 13:15:05 GMT -6
Something that's always annoyed me, which GA brought up in the Sailing to Númenor thread:
All the tall characters. Everyone is tall, and everyone is beautiful. It's bad in the source material, and it's even worse in fanfiction. Apparently no average size or plain-looking Elves live in Middle-earth. Now, I can understand somewhat the concept of nearly all Elves being tall and beautiful when described by us puny mortals, but should this description not change when the story is from the POV of other Elves? A tall, handsome Elf in the eyes of Eowyn would probably be completely average and unremarkable to Galadriel (who is herself, of course, the tallest and most beautiful of Noldorin princesses).
Elves I can list off the top of my head as being exceptionally tall (and I'm sure I'm forgetting some): Maedhros Thingol Fingolfin Argon Turgon Celeborn Galadriel Rog Penlod (hailed as tallest of all)
Elves mentioned as being short: Salgant
Elves mentioned as being fairest or most beautiful: Lúthien Arwen Galadriel Finrod (You would think there should only be one, but of course not.)
Elves singled out for having exceptional hair: Lúthien Galadriel Fingon (as the only one conspicuously missing from the 'tall' list among his immediate male family members, at least he makes up for it by having the best hair) Aegnor All blondes and redheads
Note how Galadriel makes it onto the lists for tall, beautiful, and exceptional hair. I think she may have just out-Sued Suethien.
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Post by oshun on Oct 1, 2008 14:05:28 GMT -6
Fingon (as the only one conspicuously missing from the 'tall' list among his immediate male family members, at least he makes up for it by having the best hair)
Hair is very important. I was telling my daughter the other day that tall is attractive to me. She commented that her father was not tall and I said, "Well, you saw how that worked out for me." (Seriously, looks do not matter at all, it is all about intelligence.)
OMG! I am so glad that you didn't have Finrod on your tall list. In my canon, Finrod is shorter even than Fingon. But, of course, he is the most beautiful! I did pick that up.
"out-Sued Suethien" -- great expression.
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Post by pandemonium on Oct 1, 2008 17:47:31 GMT -6
Those Númenoreans and Elves at heights in the range of 7' - 8' weird me out to no end. That smacks of hyperactive pituitary glands. Bone structure and joints at that height become compromised. Yes, yes, I know there would be others who would just wave the wand and accuse me of being a boring reductionist (guilty as charged), but to buy into that literally pulls me away from Tolkien's "green sun." I imagine Elendil as tall, but not remotely close to eight feet. Maybe between 6'6" and 6'10". That would be still be pretty imposing.
I think Gandalf's Apprentice's comment in the "Sailing to Númenor" thread on the stuff of legend is fitting. I mean, this is hobbit or maybe even a rachitic Gondorian of the 4th Age, who is re-writing history, so anyone standing at six feet or over and healthy-looking is "tall and fair/beautiful."
Doesn't Findekáno translate as "Hair Commander"? I seem to recall JRRT writing somewhere that nice hair was an especially desirable characteristic among the elves.
As an aside, "Argon" is a hootworthy name. That and "Teleporno" sound like something out of Bored of the Rings.
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Post by oshun on Oct 1, 2008 18:57:23 GMT -6
I agree that 7' to 8' feet is really disturbing and upsetting and does not sound appealing.
"All the Eldar had beautiful hair (and were especially attracted by hair of exceptional loveliness)." "The Shibboleth of Fëanor," The Peoples of Middle-Earth
I don't care what Christopher Tolkien or anyone else might have said "Hair Commander" is ridiculous. I think all the Fins were named after their father or grandfather Finwë.
On hootworthy names: I think my daughter nailed how they strike most people, when she read my "Maitimo and Findekáno" and said, "I loved the story, but lose the names." It never bothered me that much. I cut my teeth on long Russian novels with hundreds of incomprehensible names, and numerous variations and nicknames for all of them.
Teleporno is the exception. It reminds me of telenovelas (Spanish-language soap operas), and, therefore, makes me think of televised porn.
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Post by pandemonium on Oct 1, 2008 19:05:35 GMT -6
"All the Eldar had beautiful hair (and were especially attracted by hair of exceptional loveliness)." "The Shibboleth of Fëanor," The Peoples of Middle-EarthThat's it! I think the nice hair is a byproduct of what makes them "immortal." Darth can come swooping in here, but isn't "fin" derived from "clever" or "fine?" "Argon" especially kills me since I often wonder "Whose his brother? Neon?" (Argon is a noble gas.)
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Post by Darth Fingon on Oct 1, 2008 22:05:22 GMT -6
Doesn't Findekáno translate as "Hair Commander"? I seem to recall JRRT writing somewhere that nice hair was an especially desirable characteristic among the elves. There was a discussion about this on GoI. In Peoples of Middle-earth, Christopher Tolkien asserts that Findekáno means 'hair commander', which is a patently retarded idea. The Fin in Finwe does not refer to hair but, as Oshun already mentioned, skill and cleverness. The same would be true for Fingon, whose Fin name element was certainly in honour of his granfather. However, Fingon's exceptional hair also comes from PoME: he is mentioned as wearing his very thick, black hair in plaits banded with gold. I wrote a story mostly for the purpose of making a bad joke out of his name.
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Post by Darth Fingon on Oct 1, 2008 22:07:16 GMT -6
On hootworthy names: I think my daughter nailed how they strike most people, when she read my "Maitimo and Findekáno" and said, "I loved the story, but lose the names." At the risk of ruining the name Maitimo for everyone reading, I have to say it... It sounds far too much like Mighty Mouse for me to ever take seriously.
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Post by Darth Fingon on Oct 1, 2008 22:09:52 GMT -6
"Argon" especially kills me since I often wonder "Whose his brother? Neon?" (Argon is a noble gas.) Well, Radon fits quite nicely within Sindarin phonology...
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Post by oshun on Oct 1, 2008 22:14:49 GMT -6
On hootworthy names: I think my daughter nailed how they strike most people, when she read my "Maitimo and Findekáno" and said, "I loved the story, but lose the names." At the risk of ruining the name Maitimo for everyone reading, I have to say it... It sounds far too much like Mighty Mouse for me to ever take seriously. Thanks a lot! I just spent over a year trying to get a small group of people to accept that name. (I don't like it that much either, but it is what My Fingon calls him.) I don't like Russandol, because it reminds me of an annoying red-headed kid in grade school that everyone called Rusty. (His real name was Michael, by the way.)
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Post by oshun on Oct 1, 2008 22:16:58 GMT -6
That's a great story. I read it ages ago and had almost forgotten about it.
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Post by Darth Fingon on Oct 1, 2008 22:36:27 GMT -6
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Post by oshun on Oct 1, 2008 22:39:12 GMT -6
You should do that. I don't think I have read either of those.
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