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Post by oshun on May 30, 2010 12:36:47 GMT -6
Does anyone recall where in The Silmarillion or the volumes of HoMe that the Noldor might have been referred to as being physically larger or more robust than other Elves? It is stuck in my mind and I do not think it is fanon.
Thanks a lot. I know it is a holiday weekend for must of you, but any hint or bit of memory any of you might have could help me to find the cite. (Working on the character biography of Finwe this weekend.)
Thanks so much!!
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Post by russandol on May 30, 2010 13:35:18 GMT -6
Could it be this?
"In the early days Eldar and Men were of nearly equal stature and power of body, but the Eldar were blessed with greater wit, skill, and beauty; and those (the Gnomes) who had dwelt in Cor (Koreldar) as much surpassed the Ilkorins as they surpassed mortals. Only in the realm of Doriath, whose queen was of divine race, did the Ilkorins equal the Koreldar."
THE EARLIEST SILMARILLION - The Shaping of Middle-earth
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Post by oshun on May 30, 2010 13:40:20 GMT -6
Could it be this? "In the early days Eldar and Men were of nearly equal stature and power of body, but the Eldar were blessed with greater wit, skill, and beauty; and those (the Gnomes) who had dwelt in Cor (Koreldar) as much surpassed the Ilkorins as they surpassed mortals. Only in the realm of Doriath, whose queen was of divine race, did the Ilkorins equal the Koreldar."THE EARLIEST SILMARILLION - The Shaping of Middle-earth Thank you so much!! That is probably what I am thinking of!
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Morthoron
New Sneech
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Posts: 54
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Post by Morthoron on May 30, 2010 16:02:55 GMT -6
Does anyone recall where in The Silmarillion or the volumes of HoMe that the Noldor might have been referred to as being physically larger or more robust than other Elves? It is stuck in my mind and I do not think it is fanon. I don't believe it is the Noldor per se, rather the Eldar, and particularly the Eldar of Aman who exceed other Elves in strength and acuity. But, since the Noldor are indeed the only Eldar to return from Aman to Beleriand, then naturally their physical prowess and robustness is noted all through the Silmarillion. In Middle-earth it is safe to say that the Noldor exceed any other Elf, be he Sindar or Silvan, and this noted with regularity throughout the 1st Age. But if you are talking in terms of, say, a fight between a Noldor and a Vanyar, I'd say all bets were off.
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Post by oshun on May 30, 2010 16:06:49 GMT -6
Does anyone recall where in The Silmarillion or the volumes of HoMe that the Noldor might have been referred to as being physically larger or more robust than other Elves? It is stuck in my mind and I do not think it is fanon. I don't believe it is the Noldor per se, rather the Eldar, and particularly the Eldar of Aman who exceed other Elves in strength and acuity. But, since the Noldor are indeed the only Eldar to return from Aman to Beleriand, then naturally their physical prowess and robustness is noted all through the Silmarillion. In Middle-earth it is safe to say that the Noldor exceed any other Elf, be he Sindar or Silvan, and this noted with regularity throughout the 1st Age. But if you are talking in terms of, say, a fight between a Noldor and a Vanyar, I'd say all bets were off. I thought I had read somewhere that the Noldor were bigger, or broader or something like that. No, it is not for a fic. It is for a research piece. I've gone through almost every volume of HoMe using the indices, but I am silmultaneously looking for other pieces of information, so I was wondering if someone else knew what I was looking for. I really can't afford to keep looking. At this point I will have to assume what I recall doesn't exist and is probably fanon.
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Post by oshun on Jun 1, 2010 18:12:04 GMT -6
Does anyone recall where in The Silmarillion or the volumes of HoMe that the Noldor might have been referred to as being physically larger or more robust than other Elves? It is stuck in my mind and I do not think it is fanon. I don't believe it is the Noldor per se, rather the Eldar, and particularly the Eldar of Aman who exceed other Elves in strength and acuity. But, since the Noldor are indeed the only Eldar to return from Aman to Beleriand, then naturally their physical prowess and robustness is noted all through the Silmarillion. In Middle-earth it is safe to say that the Noldor exceed any other Elf, be he Sindar or Silvan, and this noted with regularity throughout the 1st Age. But if you are talking in terms of, say, a fight between a Noldor and a Vanyar, I'd say all bets were off. I definitely think you were right!! I looked some more and that is all I found! Incidious fanon! I really was convinced that the Noldor were big and tall and Sindar shortest and more willowly.
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Post by erulisse on Jun 2, 2010 4:39:47 GMT -6
Although text does not back up your supposition, it is not far off to assume that those who would be working at a forge might be more developed in upper body strength than Vanyarin scholars might be. I don't, however, recall any specific passage in text that states that the Noldo are larger or more robust than the Vanyar, the Teleri or any of the Elven strains of Middle Earth.
In my internal vision, however, I do bring the Noldo into a slightly larger body frame compared to the Sindar or Sylvan elves. They just play in my playground, and that's how they happen to appear. Sorry that I'm of absolutely NO help here, Oshun.
- Erulisse (one L)
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Post by randy on Jun 2, 2010 8:56:27 GMT -6
The description of Celeborn, Doriathrin Sinda, ('very tall they were . . .') doesn't really bear that out. I really think you get that 'shorter and willowly' thing because fanwriters like to uke Legolas up.
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Post by oshun on Jun 2, 2010 9:48:12 GMT -6
The description of Celeborn, Doriathrin Sinda, ('very tall they were . . .') doesn't really bear that out. I really think you get that 'shorter and willowly' thing because fanwriters like to uke Legolas up. You are so right. I can't imagine Thingol, Beleg or Mablung as short either! (Well, Alexander the Great was short, but in epic tales, the heroes are always tall. Well, an exception to that might be David in comparison to Goliath.)
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Post by randy on Jun 2, 2010 17:00:24 GMT -6
I seem to recall a quote about Thingol being really tall. I think that's the problem -- Tolkien liked to describe everybody as being extremely tall, which left little room for comparisons.
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Post by oshun on Jun 2, 2010 17:02:36 GMT -6
I seem to recall a quote about Thingol being really tall. I think that's the problem -- Tolkien liked to describe everybody as being extremely tall, which left little room for comparisons. Everyone is the "tallest" and the "wisest." Yep! Cracks me up when I am working on these character bios.
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Morthoron
New Sneech
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Posts: 54
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Post by Morthoron on Jun 2, 2010 18:06:38 GMT -6
I seem to recall a quote about Thingol being really tall. I think that's the problem -- Tolkien liked to describe everybody as being extremely tall, which left little room for comparisons. Thingol is an Eldar and technically not Sindarin (his followers were Sindar). After all, he was a Teleri that did make it to Aman.
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