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Post by Urloth on May 5, 2012 22:59:19 GMT -6
Hello! As the topic title says, I'm looking for help in regards to the quenyan word for a slave brand or mark
there are several words for slave (as found in the awesome post about unexpected words) but I'm using vartyo since it is a socially accepted slavery I'm talking about and then the word for brand is Yulma according to my eng-quenya dictionary.
Would I word smush these?: vartyoyulma or separate them?: vartyo yulma/ vartyo-yulma if I was going to have a character refer to them in quenya?
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Post by Marchwriter on May 6, 2012 2:20:25 GMT -6
Hmmm.... Good question. According to Ardalambion, "there seem to be no [Quenya] adjectives in -o," which suggests that "slave brand" should probably be read as "mark of the slave" or "slave's mark," using the genitive / possessive forms. Lucky us, Tolkien decided he needed two different possessive cases to do the same function for his Quenya. So, you have options. (Because examples using possessee + possessor are more common than the other way around, I decided to use the former: "mark of the slave" rather than "slave's mark.") For the possessive-adjectival-genitive thingy (that is the technical term  I might render it as 'yulma vartyova.' Even simpler is the simple genitive, the ending of which actually disappears since the possessor already ends in -o: yulma vartyo. Good luck! An intriguing bit of vocabulary, that. |
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Post by Urloth on May 6, 2012 3:40:12 GMT -6
Hmmm.... Good question. According to Ardalambion, "there seem to be no [Quenya] adjectives in -o," which suggests that "slave brand" should probably be read as "mark of the slave" or "slave's mark," using the genitive / possessive forms. Lucky us, Tolkien decided he needed two different possessive cases to do the same function for his Quenya. So, you have options. (Because examples using possessee + possessor are more common than the other way around, I decided to use the former: "mark of the slave" rather than "slave's mark.") For the possessive-adjectival-genitive thingy (that is the technical term I might render it as 'yulma vartyova.' Even simpler is the simple genitive, the ending of which actually disappears since the possessor already ends in -o: yulma vartyo. Good luck! An intriguing bit of vocabulary, that. I ... I need to take a course on linguistics I think. W...what is a genitive? *feels shame* I think I might use yulma varyova. Isn't it? I wonder why Tolkien thought there should be a word for slave in quenya |
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Post by Marchwriter on May 6, 2012 12:20:19 GMT -6
Hmmm.... Good question. According to Ardalambion, "there seem to be no [Quenya] adjectives in -o," which suggests that "slave brand" should probably be read as "mark of the slave" or "slave's mark," using the genitive / possessive forms. Lucky us, Tolkien decided he needed two different possessive cases to do the same function for his Quenya. So, you have options. (Because examples using possessee + possessor are more common than the other way around, I decided to use the former: "mark of the slave" rather than "slave's mark.") For the possessive-adjectival-genitive thingy (that is the technical term I might render it as 'yulma vartyova.' Even simpler is the simple genitive, the ending of which actually disappears since the possessor already ends in -o: yulma vartyo. Good luck! An intriguing bit of vocabulary, that. I ... I need to take a course on linguistics I think. W...what is a genitive? *feels shame* I think I might use yulma varyova. Isn't it? I wonder why Tolkien thought there should be a word for slave in quenya No shame at all. The only reason I came anywhere near to knowing what a genitive was my Romanian teachers were ruthless about teaching us all the cases of their language: acusativ, dativ, and genitive to name three. Of course, naturally, I still screw them up like hell. Genitive is pretty much possessive. So in English when you say "Mablung's heavy hand." That 's is the genitive. So, in your case, you'd say "the slave's brand" or "the brand of the slave." Hope that's a bit clearer. |
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Post by Urloth on May 9, 2012 23:41:26 GMT -6
I'll put this here because it's in a similar vein and I don't want to clutter the board.
I am also looking for how you would say "comfort woman", as in well, bedwarmer/of the horizontal profession.
I have comfort: titulaë and woman: nis. Since nothing is possessing the other thing I should just leave them as they are yes? titulae nis ?
Its for the same fic if anybody is wondering or wants to know in what direction my horrible brain is going.
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Post by Darth Fingon on May 10, 2012 21:19:53 GMT -6
I'll put this here because it's in a similar vein and I don't want to clutter the board. I am also looking for how you would say "comfort woman", as in well, bedwarmer/of the horizontal profession. The closest attested Gnomish (Sindarin-esque) word is hauthwaid, listed as 'consort', literally meaning 'lay-companion'. |
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Post by Urloth on May 22, 2012 22:09:41 GMT -6
oops I didn't see this. Thanks! Not quite what I wanted though. Interesting that Tokien would come up with such a word.
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I might render it as 'yulma vartyova.'
