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Post by Moreth on Feb 25, 2009 14:17:05 GMT -6
Have always (well, for a while, at least...) thought that hidden was part of Vilya's job. That is, if Vilya's master didn't want the valley found, you wouldn't find it, just wander endlessly about through trackless canyons, etc. See, that's what I thought. But Imladris is besieged at least once (2nd age) and probably twice (3rd age). So (in moreth!verse) Sauron isn't having any of the 'my hands are over my eyes, so you can't see me!' crap! I conclude it was 'hidden' primarilly because it was difficult to find - and I've seen canyon things you would fall down if you weren't warned! I'm sure Vilya plays some part in the 'disguise', but if you know it's there (and it seems Sauron does), then it won't keep the army out :/ But then, the said army has Sauron's will behind it... ;P Then there's raising the waters of the river to flood away the bad guys, though presumably you could only do that once or twice a season, depending on the upstream water resources... STOP NOW, DW. STOP NOW No, no! Please don't I like the water issues...
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Post by Moreth on Feb 25, 2009 14:30:43 GMT -6
My boy likes the idea behind Dien Bien Phu (keep in mind that my boy at this point of the Third Age is probably trying to figure out how he can keep his corporeal form under control, cf. Fell Beast fic ) and orc archers raining down fiery arrows. Large siege engines dragged across the moors might be a bit tricky, but then you've got your trolls for slave labor. Heh! I thought he'd like the idea I'm sure he can figure out the logistics - just, ya know, really have the route pacified - nothing more embarrassing than losing your heavy artillery to ten guys with pea-shooters :/ I always thought 'Napalm' myself - it being quicker 'n all. But mustard gas and similar is nasty stuff... IMO, it was one of the most effective images of war in the book. *flinch* You know me I'm always thinking about how I can reasonably insert x technology! Although I haven't found a way to make aluminium without a massive introduction of electricity... *pouts*
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Post by pandemonium on Feb 25, 2009 14:32:38 GMT -6
See, that's what I thought. But Imladris is besieged at least once (2nd age) and probably twice (3rd age). So (in moreth!verse) Sauron isn't having any of the 'my hands are over my eyes, so you can't see me!' crap! That was my thought, too. Rivendell was besieged before, so its general location isn't exactly secret. But this starts veering into trying to graft too much consistent reality (not a strong point of Tolkien ) onto the question. [I'm still trying to wrap my head around the mellon question. ] But that said, I like DW's speculation that Vilya might confuse the everyday orc soldier with its obfuscating glamour, making a concerted siege a bit more challenging. As an aside, I',m partial to the rumor that the Lauterbrunnen valley in Switzerland was JRRT's inspiration for the valley of Rivendell.
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Post by pandemonium on Feb 25, 2009 14:35:20 GMT -6
Although I haven't found a way to make aluminium without a massive introduction of electricity... *pouts* Just dam the Anduin and forge some generators.
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Kenaz
New Sneech
Making Haldir Miserable Since 2005
Posts: 88
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Post by Kenaz on Feb 25, 2009 14:36:28 GMT -6
No, no! Don't stop! I'm eventually going to have to come up with a plausible scenario for this, so any and all brainstorming is most welcome!!!
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Kenaz
New Sneech
Making Haldir Miserable Since 2005
Posts: 88
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Post by Kenaz on Feb 25, 2009 14:39:48 GMT -6
[ I always thought 'Napalm' myself - it being quicker 'n all. But mustard gas and similar is nasty stuff... IMO, it was one of the most effective images of war in the book. *flinch* I've gone the siege-engines-hurling-vessels-of-Greek-Fire route before, but it worked... would it be a cop-out to employ it again, do you think?
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Post by pandemonium on Feb 25, 2009 14:42:16 GMT -6
[ I always thought 'Napalm' myself - it being quicker 'n all. But mustard gas and similar is nasty stuff... IMO, it was one of the most effective images of war in the book. *flinch* I've gone the siege-engines-hurling-vessels-of-Greek-Fire route before, but it worked... would it be a cop-out to employ it again, do you think? I don't think so! Once a Nefarious Weapon of Evil™ always a Nefarious Weapon of Evil™.
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Post by Moreth on Feb 25, 2009 14:56:44 GMT -6
I've gone the siege-engines-hurling-vessels-of-Greek-Fire route before, but it worked... would it be a cop-out to employ it again, do you think? No. Not all! (Morgeth Inc. is pleased to have repeat custom ) And honestly, a good weapon is deployed until the enemy have a response to it. So, unless you wrote the elves finding a defence, it's fair game to deploy again Edited to try to make sense! And to say, 'What Pandë said!'
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Post by Moreth on Feb 26, 2009 2:37:33 GMT -6
Just dam the Anduin and forge some generators. And that gives me Evil Plot no. 5: It might be difficult to poison the river, but it might be possible to dam it. Lake Imladris, anyone?
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Kenaz
New Sneech
Making Haldir Miserable Since 2005
Posts: 88
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Post by Kenaz on Feb 27, 2009 10:14:09 GMT -6
Sounds like a resort up in the Poconos. Or a summer camp! Elladan and Elrohir are obviously in charge of staging panty raids on the girls' side. ;D
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Post by elfscribe on Feb 27, 2009 13:17:47 GMT -6
Sounds like a resort up in the Poconos. Or a summer camp! Elladan and Elrohir are obviously in charge of staging panty raids on the girls' side. ;D Hi Kenaz, glad to see you here and I got a smile reading everyone's creative ideas for how to invade Imladris. I agree, a well-placed dam ought to do it. But now this idea has REAL merit. Camp Rivendell: lanyard quiver making classes, dunk Counselor Erestor pranks, bug juice, fearful midnight trips to the outhouse, and all.
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aiwen
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Post by aiwen on Oct 23, 2009 13:03:32 GMT -6
They might have trouble crossing the Baranduin if they approach from the west, given Elrond's control over Vilya - however, Elrond might not want to do anything too obviously only possible with Vilya because it would reveal where Vilya was. Since the wise were still trying to keep the location of the three quiet during the war of the Ring, this would probably be an issue in the war with Angmar.
Sounds like an interesting story you're working on.
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