|
Post by elfscribe on Jul 9, 2010 13:04:39 GMT -6
Fellow Lizardlings, If you have had enough fun paddling in the rivers, could I ask for your learnéd commentary on catapults? I am interested in a Roman style--those kind with the spoon-like bucket, although I could be talked into the sling variety if that goes farther. However, not sure a sling could carry flaming balls. I gather that the catapult is winched back and then released and the arm with the projectile flies forward to stop against a tall cross piece. I need one that can throw a long distance. It needs to throw flaming balls if that's possible. And it would be good to know how to make a flaming ball too. I don't want a Trebuchet because in the elfscribe universe that's a new design Sauron has come up with but he only has a prototype built. I presume also that when released, it would move on its wheels. I'm interested in what that motion might be like, i.e. Does it suddenly fly backwards? What are the dangers in using one? Any good website you know of would be great. I did find this one: www.redstoneprojects.com/trebuchetstore/build_a_catapult.htmlAnd an awesome moving gif here: www.howtobuildcatapults.com/catapultmangonelanimation.htmlHere's a pic: Thanks! ;D
|
|
|
Post by russandol on Jul 9, 2010 14:01:35 GMT -6
I remember reading somewhere that the Romans had two types of catapults. I have just looked them up: the ballista, which threw javelins (it was like a giant crossbow), and the onager (wild donkey), which I think is the one you are after. The onager had more range than the mangonel, which was an earlier model, because of the sling arrangement that lengthened the throwing arm. When I searched for onager I found the following paragraph, now I can't find it again to give you the link: A Roman writer, called Ammianus Marcellius, roughly gave gave the following explanation: "The onager's framework is made out of two beams from oak, which curve into humps. In the middle they have quite large holes in them, in which strong sinew ropes are stretched and twisted. A long arm is then inserted between the bundle of rope, at it's end it has a pin and a pouch. It strikes on a huge buffer with a sack stuffed with fine chaff and secured by tight binding. When it comes to combat, a round stone (often clay balls with Greek fire in them, which explode on impact and burst into flames) is put in the pouch and the arm is winched down. Then, the master artilleryman strikes the pin with a hammer, and with a big blow, the stone is launched towards it's target." EDIT: It's here: members.multimania.nl/onager/onager.html but I closed the window because I got deluged with silly "you've won a price" ads. For info on the mangonel (sling-less onager), check this site: www.castles.me.uk/mangonel.htmThe pictures I have seen when browsing did not have wheels. If they did, a heavy mass propelled forwards (projectile) would require a movement of the engine backwards. Also, when the throwing arm hits the crossbar, it sort of throws the whole engine forward, making the bucking motion (donkey kick). This video is a good one, I think: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3n6I0ncEU8You can see the engine rock when the ball is shot. My 2-pence worth of dynamics.
|
|
|
Post by elfscribe on Jul 9, 2010 14:41:37 GMT -6
I remember reading somewhere that the Romans had two types of catapults. I have just looked them up: the ballista, which threw javelins (it was like a giant crossbow), and the onager (wild donkey), which I think is the one you are after. The onager had more range than the mangonel, which was an earlier model, because of the sling arrangement that lengthened the throwing arm. . . . Thanks for all that. Clay balls that erupt with Greek fire is an interesting alternative to pitch balls. Hmmm. I love this kind of research, but damn it slows the writing down and I'm no kind of engineer.
|
|
|
Post by erulisse on Jul 10, 2010 4:32:21 GMT -6
You could use a sling-style if the leather of the sling was kept very wet when placing the flaming item into it. But I really like the enclosed Greek Fire method - much easier to transport and to place into the equipment. I remember watching several shows that rebuilt catapults and trebouchets and was awestruck by the power within them. Along with that came the feeling of totally being appalled at the cruelty of man towards man. I don't think that war is in Eru's plan - just my opinion. Anyway, back to reality - the physics of the torque involved in the rope winding mechanism was amazing, and quite frightening. I think I would rather be slinging a sword than working one of these machines.
- Erulisse (one L)
|
|
|
Post by DrummerWench on Jul 10, 2010 9:28:43 GMT -6
My nephews (ages 17 & 18) spent the first few days of summer vaca building a trebuchet in the driveway. Then they wheeled it down to the local park, loaded it up, & let it go. It worked one time out of four in the video they posted (it's on Facebook, so not sure if I can link to it). My sister & brother-in-law clearly think it's in their interest to be defended from the riff-raff by medieval weaponry.
|
|
|
Post by elfscribe on Jul 10, 2010 12:12:15 GMT -6
You could use a sling-style if the leather of the sling was kept very wet when placing the flaming item into it. But I really like the enclosed Greek Fire method - much easier to transport and to place into the equipment. I remember watching several shows that rebuilt catapults and trebouchets and was awestruck by the power within them. Along with that came the feeling of totally being appalled at the cruelty of man towards man. I don't think that war is in Eru's plan - just my opinion. Anyway, back to reality - the physics of the torque involved in the rope winding mechanism was amazing, and quite frightening. I think I would rather be slinging a sword than working one of these machines. - Erulisse (one L) Keeping it wet, a good idea. Like you, I'm fascinated by these things and I also saw something on a history channel show about them. I had the same exact reaction as you, an awe of their power and then a sick feeling in the stomach when contemplating what this would actually do. Humanity's inventive genius when it comes to doing awful things to ourselves is legion. Nevertheless, it is fun to fling things. Thanks Drummerwench for the story about your nephews. Made me smile. Apparently, according to my research, Monty Python was not engaging in silly hyperbole at least as far as the cow catapult goes. Dead animals were often flung. Mooooooo! And now we can get the Monty Python cow catapult. Who knew? Omg, I so want one of these.
|
|
|
Post by erulisse on Jul 11, 2010 17:40:59 GMT -6
Ohhh....a cow catapult. How perfect is this? ? - Erulisse (one L)
|
|
|
Post by samtyr on Jul 16, 2010 0:48:56 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by elfscribe on Jul 16, 2010 12:57:27 GMT -6
Thanks for the reference. It looks like an interesting book and is now in my cart at Amazon. (Used copies may be had for $.01 I wonder why booksellers bother?) I spent several hours the other day looking at youtube videos because I is an uber-nerd. LOL. Nevertheless, none of them had the specific details I was after and so I'm doing some fudging. I did have a good laugh at the English aristocrat who built a colossal trebuchet and flung burning pianos and an old car with it. There is such a thing as having too much free time.
|
|