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Post by erulisse on May 9, 2011 8:27:14 GMT -6
While we are talking about measurements and terminology, the thing that always bugs me as a writer dealing with the Awakening through the end of the 2nd Age is: Age.
If it is generally conceded that Elves generally come of age between age 50 and 100 (and that is very general), and that age in the Time of the Trees is greatly extended - in other words, the time for a year is MUCH longer than the time of a year under the Sun and Moon, then what happened?
Was there a sudden change in the physiology of elves the moment the Sun crested the horizon to cause them to age faster? Or was there a time-shift in the time of The Trees that caused them to age slower? Because I'm not finding any common ground between a year of the Two Trees and a year of the Sun. But for my characters, it's kindof important - when they reach adulthood, have families, and can enter into contracts (to put it into a modern window).
Ideas? Thoughts? Does this drive other people as crazy as it drives me?
- Erulisse (one L)
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Post by grey gazania on May 9, 2011 8:39:25 GMT -6
Was there a sudden change in the physiology of elves the moment the Sun crested the horizon to cause them to age faster? Or was there a time-shift in the time of The Trees that caused them to age slower? Because I'm not finding any common ground between a year of the Two Trees and a year of the Sun. But for my characters, it's kindof important - when they reach adulthood, have families, and can enter into contracts (to put it into a modern window). I have in my head that time actually sped up once the sun rose, but I'm not sure if that's canon or fanon; I'll have to dig around in HoME. If that is the case then maturity comes at 50-100 YS just like it did at 50-100 YT. |
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Post by russandol on May 9, 2011 13:51:59 GMT -6
While we are talking about measurements and terminology, the thing that always bugs me as a writer dealing with the Awakening through the end of the 2nd Age is: Age. If it is generally conceded that Elves generally come of age between age 50 and 100 (and that is very general), and that age in the Time of the Trees is greatly extended - in other words, the time for a year is MUCH longer than the time of a year under the Sun and Moon, then what happened? Was there a sudden change in the physiology of elves the moment the Sun crested the horizon to cause them to age faster? Or was there a time-shift in the time of The Trees that caused them to age slower? Because I'm not finding any common ground between a year of the Two Trees and a year of the Sun. But for my characters, it's kindof important - when they reach adulthood, have families, and can enter into contracts (to put it into a modern window). Ideas? Thoughts? Does this drive other people as crazy as it drives me? - Erulisse (one L) My view is that the 50-100 is measured in our current concept of year (as in a revolution of the earth around the sun, roughly equivalent to the years used by the elves from the rising of the sun, leave or take a few hours). Before that, it may be they came of age at 5-10 Valiar years, because a Valiar year was about 10 of our current ones. It's just a matter of measurement units, not of altered physiology or a magic time distortion when the sun rose. |
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Post by erulisse on May 9, 2011 18:26:48 GMT -6
I agree, I don't think it is a difference in physiology, that could be done by Eru, but not by the Valar. It does drive me crazy, however, the differing ways that annular time is counted in the time of the Trees vs the time of the Sun. With a year of the Trees equalling between 9 and 10 solar years, the general maturation point for elves under the Trees would probably be between 5 and 12 years, but the general term "year" gets thrown around the longer time span like a hockey puck. Pregnancy? One year - NOT. Actually, 1/9 of a year. Apprenticeships, 30 years? NOT. Actually, apprenticeships are 270+ years. My poor, aching head :-)
- Erulisse (one L)
moaning since she's so in love with the early days and those are the days of temporal nightmare.
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Post by vanime18431 on May 9, 2011 18:28:33 GMT -6
Wow Erulisse, you are thinking some serious stuff here. Wish I had an answer for you.  As it is in fanfiction, there is a wide gamut of age of majority among elves, some far extreme in the amount of years than others. Talk about confusing! In light of what you are asking - one wonders when do elflings start going to school lessons? How many years for this is there? Did Tolkien even mention that? I only ask out of wanting to know. Hugs and Love, Vanime |
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Post by grey gazania on May 9, 2011 19:33:06 GMT -6
I agree, I don't think it is a difference in physiology, that could be done by Eru, but not by the Valar. It does drive me crazy, however, the differing ways that annular time is counted in the time of the Trees vs the time of the Sun. With a year of the Trees equalling between 9 and 10 solar years, the general maturation point for elves under the Trees would probably be between 5 and 12 years, but the general term "year" gets thrown around the longer time span like a hockey puck. Pregnancy? One year - NOT. Actually, 1/9 of a year. Apprenticeships, 30 years? NOT. Actually, apprenticeships are 270+ years. My poor, aching head :-) Found the bit I was remembering in the Annals of Aman: "The shorter year of the Sun was so made because of the greater speed of all growth, and likewise of all change and withering, that the Valar knew should come to pass after the death of the Trees." So a physiological change isn't completely out of the question. It's easier to count by, at least.  |
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As it is in fanfiction, there is a wide gamut of age of majority among elves, some far extreme in the amount of years than others. Talk about confusing!