Names of the Noldor exiles in M-E

[alassante]

This might seem like a dumb question but why did the Noldor from Aman take Sindarin names? If a Italian person comes to America with an Italian name, they don't change it. Would the Noldor still use their Quenya name when speaking to each other?

I'm writing a story about Celebrimbor/OC and I need to know if I have to change her name to Sindarin when they're in M-E.

[Darth Fingon]

Jun 23, 2009 9:27:27 GMT -6 alassante said:

This might seem like a dumb question but why did the Noldor from Aman take Sindarin names? If a Italian person comes to America with an Italian name, they don't change it. Would the Noldor still use their Quenya name when speaking to each other?

I think they would. The Sindarin names used in the Silmarillion don't necessarily reflect what those characters would have called themselves and each other, but how they were referred to in later history by Sindarin-speaking historians. Rather like how British historians referred to Jacques Cartier as Jack Carter, or how Yeshuah became Jesus.

This is up to your interpretation, though. Some Noldor may have opted to keep using their Quenya names, while others may have adopted the Sindarin form. Some people keep their ethnic names when they move to a new country, and some take new names in the local style.

[alassante]

Good point Darth - I didn't think of it as the historians reference instead of them actually changing their names. Although I don't think Celeborn wants to walk around being called Teleporno. hehe

My OFC is Lómemírë (Q-Night Jewel) from your site (hope I got it right!). I cannot access your site from work cause the word 'fetish' blocks it from our firewall lol Is it still pretty in Sindarin?

[Darth Fingon]

Jun 23, 2009 10:00:36 GMT -6 alassante said:

My OFC is Lómemírë (Q-Night Jewel) from your site (hope I got it right!). I cannot access your site from work cause the word 'fetish' blocks it from our firewall lol Is it still pretty in Sindarin?

Erm, not really... Very strictly, it would Sindarinise to Dúvir. But you can fudge that a little, since Sindarinisation is far from an exact science. Something like Lómiril (which I think is much better) would work if you just want to go for a Fingolfin-style sound shift that loosly conforms to Sindarin phonology but isn't necessarily a proper translation. Lovíriel is another option, which sits in the middle of adaptation and translation (and is better Sindarin than Lómiril, if that matters.) But it has a distinct and separate meaning: lake that glitters like a jewel.

[randy]

If a Italian person comes to America with an Italian name, they don't change it

.

Actually, back in the day, the officials at Ellis Island would issue a new, more American sounding name if the old ethnic one was too difficult to pronounce. Sometimes people change it themselves after listening to the locals mangle it.

I'm pretty sure the Noldor kept calling one another by their old names for a long time, while the local Sindar used the new form, out of sheer inability to pronounce it any other way.

[erullisse]

Lovíriel is another option, which sits in the middle of adaptation and translation (and is better Sindarin than Lómiril, if that matters.) But it has a distinct and separate meaning: lake that glitters like a jewel.

DARTH - Any reason Lómiril couldn't be used as an actual lake / pond name? That's beautiful and the meaning is perfect . . . I could really use that . . .

[Darth Fingon]

Jun 23, 2009 11:52:22 GMT -6 @erullisse said:

DARTH - Any reason Lómiril couldn't be used as an actual lake / pond name? That's beautiful and the meaning is perfect . . . I could really use that . . .

Well, it's not really correct Sindarin. The sound and letter combinations are not impossible, but it wouldn't occur in known Sindarin vocabulary. If you want to stick with attested words, it would have to be Lommíriel ('haven that glitters like a jewel'), Lommeril ('rose haven' or 'heavy rose'), Lóviril ('lake jewel star').

If you want the meaning 'lake that glitters like a jewel', it's Lovíriel (shallow lake), Aelvíriel, Nemíriel, or Rimmíriel (mountain lake).

[alassante]

Dúvir isn't exactly beautiful is it? lol I think I'll use Lómiril.

[Darth Fingon]

Jun 23, 2009 14:07:16 GMT -6 alassante said:

Dúvir isn't exactly beautiful is it? lol I think I'll use Lómiril.

This just gave me a great story idea: Noldorin ladies being horrified when their nice Quenya names turn into something like Dúvir in Sindarin.

[alassante]

Jun 23, 2009 16:07:23 GMT -6 Darth Fingon said:

Jun 23, 2009 14:07:16 GMT -6 alassante said:

Dúvir isn't exactly beautiful is it? lol I think I'll use Lómiril.

This just gave me a great story idea: Noldorin ladies being horrified when their nice Quenya names turn into something like Dúvir in Sindarin.

LOL You could throw in all the weird names to start with. Like Teleporno and Mablung who I nicknamed Mablung the Hung.