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Post by oshun on Jul 23, 2008 21:15:27 GMT -6
1) Who the heck called whom the Lindar and when did they call them that? I cannot keep Sindar, Lindar, Teleri, elves of the Falas, etc. straight (and/or who was called what when)! Is there any one place in canon that spells that out or, even better a semi-reliable secondary source with a half-decent rundown (the Sindar is not my chosen field of expertise, my tiny head can only hold so much at one time, and this is for a swap fic)?
2) I had a discussion over writing "Others called us Galadhrim, after our city Caras Galadhon.” The other person argued that the city was named after the Galadhrim and I just assumed that the Galadhrim got the name after the name of the city was changed to Caras Galadhron. Unless someone can clarify, it seems like a which came first the chicken or the egg discussion to me.
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Post by jael on Jul 24, 2008 14:37:49 GMT -6
What? No one else has commented yet?
Okay -- I'm no language expert. I can't comment on the Lindar because my brain is not working. However:
Eh? The name of the city was changed to Caras Galadhron? I don't recall that. In Sindarin, Galadhrim means 'people of the trees'. It was also a minor pun on the name of Galadriel, their Lady. (Galadrim)
If I'm entirely wrong here, Darth can chime in.
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Post by Darth Fingon on Jul 24, 2008 15:33:54 GMT -6
What? No one else has commented yet? Okay -- I'm no language expert. I can't comment on the Lindar because my brain is not working. My brain is sort of working, so let's see if I can explain this in a way that makes sense. Lindar is a Quenya word that has applied, at one time or another, to two groups of Elves. Originally it was the name for the Vanyar. Then it became another name for the Teleri. Anyone who uses the term Lindar will be a Quenya-speaking Elf who is referring to the Teleri by their poetic name: the Singers. What, do I have to do everything around here?! Alright, here's the deal. The name of the city and the name of the Elves are the same because both names have very, very boring meanings. In true Tolkien style. Galadhrim: people of the trees Caras Galadhon: city of the trees You can see the common element 'galadh' (tree) working its magic. I would say that neither is named after the other, because both are named after the trees. The Galadhrim would still be called such even if their city had a different name, and Caras Galadhon would still be called Caras Galadhon even if it were inhabited by Tawarwaith rather than Galadhrim. As for the Galadriel pun, that's close, but backwards. The names of the city and people weren't changed, but Galadriel's was: to Galadhriel. She was sometimes referred to jokingly by this name. Galadrim and Caras Galadon show up thusly in some versions simply because Tolkien (at one point) decided the DH sound was too confusing for most readers, and changed it to a D. He then changed his mind again and switched it back. This discrepancy is a Tolkien glitch rather than a change to match Galadriel. |
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Post by oshun on Jul 24, 2008 16:39:01 GMT -6
What? No one else has commented yet? Okay -- I'm no language expert. I can't comment on the Lindar because my brain is not working. However: Eh? The name of the city was changed to Caras Galadhron? I don't recall that. In Sindarin, Galadhrim means 'people of the trees'. It was also a minor pun on the name of Galadriel, their Lady. (Galadrim) If I'm entirely wrong here, Darth can chime in. I had notes which said Nelennas - meaning "gore" - "ancient name of Caras Galadhron" (almost two years old for P&HL novel research). Tried to find my source by doing a quick google, all I got was a Wikipedia note to that effect, without a citation. Great, huh? I'm a regular whiz at this. (I would search the real texts, but I have a nap-less, wilding Baby Fingon here right now. He just tore all my Spanish dictionaries off their shelf while I typed this.) Darth notes that Lindar is Quenya, which screws my usage of it that I was worried about... I'm batting 1000. Thanks for pitching in though. |
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Post by jael on Jul 27, 2008 12:40:18 GMT -6
Yes, Darth. You do. ;D Wikipedia? Shake head sadly.  |
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Post by oshun on Jul 27, 2008 12:49:12 GMT -6
Yes, Darth. You do. ;D Wikipedia? Shake head sadly. Oh, when it comes to Tolkien canon, those wacky online encyclopedias are a hoot! I learned that working on the SWG character bios. They are so frequently wrong and then copy shamelessly from one another. I found a lovely quote I wanted to use in my Beleg bio. It even had a cite. So I looked it up. And Beleg didn't say it at all, but Gwindor did, in a totally different context. Too bad about that. It would have fit so nicely in my piece. (And it was credited to Beleg in three or four of the online encyclopedias! So one person got it wrong and everybody copied it. At least I verify things, even when they are footnoted. Well, in thos bios, at least, if not my fiction!) |
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