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Post by Urloth on Apr 25, 2012 22:15:51 GMT -6
howdy, sorry to bother again so soon after my last post. I am trying to create a name that either means "graceful" or "dancer". I found the verb for dance is Lilta from here www.ambar-eldaron.com/eng-quen.pdf I think my real question is, what's the rule for adding a verb to a name/creating a name from a verb? Oh and has anybody got the word for graceful? I don't think it exists. |
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Post by elleth on Apr 26, 2012 2:46:45 GMT -6
I can think of Tintallë (Kindler) and Serindë right now, which have -llë and -ndë as feminine agental suffixes, so I suppose Liltallë or Liltandë could be formed on that pattern. -ndë especially also is used for "nouning" (as a linguist friend of mine so famously put it while drunk and groping for words to describe the the intricacies of Guaraní) verbs.
Ardalambion's Quenya lexicon also lists -mo as (male) suffix "sometimes with an agental significance", and while I can't think of an attested name with that at the moment (Ancalimë stems from calima, bright, not from anything agental), I don't think there are constraints that would forbid Liltamë.
There is no attested word for graceful, as far as I can see. Anything to do with grace in Quenya usually has religious connotations of divine gifts or sweetness (hence eruanna or erulisse). If you are going for a description/addition to the dancer-name regarding her movement, unfortunately nothing about elegance either. There is a word for agile, though, tyelca, but that also comes with the unfortunate co-connotation of hastiness as per Celegorm's Quenya name. Lelya is glossed as "delicate, beautiful & fine, slender; lovely", perhaps one of these works for you?
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Post by Urloth on Apr 26, 2012 6:31:24 GMT -6
well its for a male character so possibly Liltame or uh... hmmm ... graceful seemed like such a obvious word to be floating about. :/ I wanted to slap either graceful or dancer onto another family circulated name (much in the way finwe gets used all over the place in Finwe's family) but Liltame sounds so nice *pats it* I might keep it and slap another poor unsuspecting character with it.
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Post by elleth on Apr 26, 2012 9:57:39 GMT -6
Excuse me while I take a dive in the big pool of gender stereotyping. I'm sorry, that was more than putting my foot in.
There actually is a male equivalent (?) for -ndë, -ando. Probably not so much for -llë, since -llo is also the suffix of choice for the ablative case, so you'd have a bit of syncretism there that Tolkien seems to have tried to avoid. And of course -mo, as mentioned above as one of the male agental suffixes.
If you want to establish a line of patronymics (which I think is a really cool idea that should happen more in fic outside the Finweans!), you can actually just slap that together with a noun or adjective (or verb?); from my understanding the patronymic suffix would replace the agental one anyway, so you could coin (for example, since I don't know the family name you were going to use) Liltafinwë rather than Liltamofinwë.
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Post by Urloth on Apr 26, 2012 16:27:27 GMT -6
awww no it's all right! I should have said male in the first post!
Oh I thought you had to do something to the verb ending before you slapped it on a patronymic. That makes my life so much easier since I still had to come up with great grandad and two cousin's names.
Just for a lark because this thought occurred to me, do you think there are matronymic lines running amok? (I once had fun genderswapping Feanor's family but the names gave me difficulty so I just swapped out the Finwës for Miriels and called it a day. Genderswapped Feanor is a frightening creature, especially when she's dealing with her brothers.)
oh gosh Liltafinwë *cuddles that name hard* what a precious sounding name. He sounds like someone who stood in the corner at family reunions and stared jealously at all the masculine finwë names, poor baby (and gosh now I'm gender stereotyping. I'm sure if a Liltafinwë ever existed he was perfectly secure in his masculinity and liked his name.)
Thank you very much for your help!!
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Post by elleth on Apr 26, 2012 20:18:36 GMT -6
And I should have asked whether you wanted a male or female name instead of assuming, but oh well. Nothing has been done to the initial element in the known Finwëan names if you use the patronymic as a suffix., curu simply means "skill" (and is translated as "skillful" in Fëanor's name), nolo is a stem(?) "pertaining to wisdom", and ara is an adjective, "noble". And since Quenya adjectives most usually end in -a anyway, I'd say lilta- is valid enough to use in name formation.  Matronymic lines - I'm not sure. With the Noldor living in such a pervasively patriarchal system, there probably wouldn't be much emphasis on the female lines, but if you managed to sell this convincingly in fic, I'd love it.  There is a canonical caveat in the LaCE, however, stating that "the father-name of a daughter would [...] often be derived from the name of the mother." so it's not totally impossible, and you seem to have been going the right way with the Míriel-names (though Maedhros would need a new name, "Third Míriel" doesn't make much sense). (I believe you about female Fëanor, she does sound quite formidable by default!) Liltafinwë: Heh! I... kind of like him. And now picturing this gorgeous dancer moving like a big cat, stealing the show from everyone on the dance floor at family reunions... er. I'll be in my bunk?  No need to stand in the corner staring jealously, except if you're one of his male relatives. (And now my!Anairë - who is a dancer, among other things - is making eyes at him. Gah! If you can help it, never allow the pointy-ears into your mind, or they will usurp it mercilessly! ) You're very welcome, this is a fun discussion. ^^ |
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Post by Urloth on Apr 26, 2012 20:53:39 GMT -6
No Maedhros' name still made sense since there was Míriel, Fëanor Finwiel (I'm sure this isn't) correct either) who was Tamomíriel (since Finwë thought Curumíriel would seem like he was implying Míriel wasn't skilled herself. I like writing Finwë with issues. Poor man.), and then finally poor Nelyamíriel (who can't find a suitor since most men don't want a wife a whole head taller then them.)
(Female Fëanor has legit reasons to suspect her brother's of usurping her before Melkor even begins to mind-play her. She also flirts with her sister-in-law, Nerdanel, to the intrigue of her husband.)
Too late on letting elves take up residence in my head *watches Liltafinwë join the masses all demanding their stories be finished, now!, and sighs in despair*
Liltafinwë: *sashays his hips*
oh you minx *opens a new word document and names it Liltafinwë*
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Post by Urloth on May 1, 2012 21:42:27 GMT -6
Another question which I'll put here so I dont clutter the board.
Is there a way to say "pre-eminent daughter" or "only daughter" in a name?
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There is a canonical caveat in the LaCE, however, stating that "the father-name of a daughter would [...] often be derived from the name of the mother." so it's not totally impossible, and you seem to have been going the right way with the Míriel-names (though Maedhros would need a new name, "Third Míriel" doesn't make much sense). 
No need to stand in the corner staring jealously, except if you're one of his male relatives. (And now my!Anairë - who is a dancer, among other things - is making eyes at him. Gah! If you can help it, never allow the pointy-ears into your mind, or they will usurp it mercilessly!