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Post by Spiced Wine on May 4, 2012 12:44:05 GMT -6
It's just a name. I am writing a bit about a clan of Silvan Elves who call themselves the Folk of the Black Moon. I wondered what that would be in Sindarin, both singular and plural?
I could just write it as it is, in English, but if any-one could help, I would be very grateful.
Thank-you,
Siân.
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Post by oshun on May 4, 2012 14:00:03 GMT -6
It's just a name. I am writing a bit about a clan of Silvan Elves who call themselves the Folk of the Black Moon. I wondered what that would be in Sindarin, both singular and plural? I could just write it as it is, in English, but if any-one could help, I would be very grateful. Thank-you, Siân. So sorry! I cannot help at all. Just hang on a while and someone who knows something about this may pop onto the board. |
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Post by Spiced Wine on May 4, 2012 15:12:30 GMT -6
Thanks, Oshun.  |
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Post by russandol on May 4, 2012 15:59:36 GMT -6
It's just a name. I am writing a bit about a clan of Silvan Elves who call themselves the Folk of the Black Moon. I wondered what that would be in Sindarin, both singular and plural? I get as far as to know that ithilvorn would be "black moon". Already three syllables, mmm... From there, wild guesses... Ithilvornel = one of those elves Ithilvornil = several of those elves A bit on the long side, and the collective form ending in -im is just too awful to consider, so I won't write it. I'm sure if you wait a bit longer you'll get a) a better alternative and b) a good laugh.  |
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Post by Marchwriter on May 5, 2012 0:37:16 GMT -6
Er....here's my stab...Now granted, I am a hobbyist in linguisitcs, not a PhD, so take this with a heaping helpingful of salt. But, I see at least two possibilities, maybe more. The collective plural might be, depending on how your Silvan clan view themselves, Denwaith-en-Ithilvorn: the Nandor of the Black Moon (if this is First Age-y) Tawarwaith-en-Ithilvorn: the Silvan Elves of the Black Moon Gwaith-en-Ithilvorn: People of the Black Moon (not quite sure about the lenition or lack thereof of the m->v in this case for "Ithilvorn," but I bow to Russa's better judgement there. ) As far as addressing said elves goes, I like Russa's alternatives over anything else I could find. But, for a good laugh there's "Ithilvornedhil" (Black Moon Elves) and it's singular equivalent "Ithilvornedhel." If you take out the adjective part of it, it's a bit more manageable. Moon-elf--Ithiledhel Moon-elves--Ithiledhil But I'd have to know a bit more of the context. If it's a form of address in dialogue or narrative...who's saying it and why...or if it's narrative. Anyway, good luck! Sindarin is tricky, and there are so many rules that immediately get broken, you could probably have a handful of possibilities and they'd all be right. |
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Post by Spiced Wine on May 5, 2012 2:09:25 GMT -6
Thank-you Russa and Marchwriter, very much. So: Ithilvornel = one of those elves Ithilvornil = several of those elves I think they would call themselves the Gwaith-en-Ithilvorn: (People of the Black Moon) It is from the First Age, but I am writing in the Third in this instance. Moon-elf--Ithiledhel
Moon-elves--Ithiledhil
But I'd have to know a bit more of the context. If it's a form of address in dialogue or narrative...who's saying it and why...or if it's narrative. So far it's just a couple of mentions: Bainalph's subjects included the People of the Black Moon, a fey clan of whom many strange tales were told...
Alone among the wood-Elves, they (the People of the Black Moon) spoke to the Houseless. So would the latter be the Ithiledhil spoke to the Houseless ? Thank-you very much for taking the time to look at this. |
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Post by Marchwriter on May 5, 2012 3:27:06 GMT -6
So would the latter be the Ithiledhil spoke to the Houseless ? Thank-you very much for taking the time to look at this. You're welcome, Spiced. I take a secretly guilty pleasure in spending hours disentangling the subtleties (and maddening inconsistencies) of Sindarin and Quenya grammar and translating fragments of things I never use. I think you could even say "in Ithiledhil" if you want to go out all-out Sindarin. That means "the moon-elves." Personally, I would almost argue in favor of just saying "the moon-elves" in this instance (though the opposite holds when mentioning the actual name of the clan). But, yes, the ithiledhil would work. |
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Post by Spiced Wine on May 5, 2012 15:26:14 GMT -6
Well, I am so glad to find people who do love languages, as the subtleties really escape me, and I would rather write it in English than get it completely wrong.
I will copy all this; thank-you again for taking the time!
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Post by Marchwriter on May 5, 2012 22:58:17 GMT -6
Anytime. Good luck!
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