Life in the Greenwood the Great: Caves or Trees?

[Kenaz]

Location: Eryn Galen, early 3rd age.

I'm having a hard time reconciling this "Elves love nature!" thing with Thranduil's great underground caverns.

Would Legolas have lived underground, or were Thranduil's halls more of a safeguard in case of attack and/or great place for holding royal feasts/bar mitzvahs/gay elf soul-bondings with champaigne receptions and petitfours/naked dwarf tossing championships?

I can imagine the majority of Mirkwood's denizens taking shelter there once Dol Guldur became actively nefarious, but during the years of the Watchful Peace, I can't imagine them wanting to live in caves, no matter how "airy" and festive they might have been. Or maybe that's where all the barrels of wine come in, and they're all just drinking the pain away down there.

In short: Would Legolas live underground or out in a tree somewhere?

[Kenaz]

Mar 15, 2009 11:49:53 GMT -6 jael said:

Early Third Age? Until about the year 1000 TA or slightly later, Thranduil (and Legolas if he was already born) lived in an above-ground palace in the Emyn Duir. The the building of Dol Guldur inspired the removal of the realm northward and the delving of the caverns.

I'm right on the cusp, then, as it is approximately 946 TA. So now I can go consult that thread on Elven architecture! This makes things much easier.

My understanding is that the Watchful Peace took place over a few hundred years in the final millennium of the Third Age.

You are correct-- I was using the wrong terminology.

Many thanks!

[jael]

Okay, here are the pertinent quotes from Tolkien:

"TA 1050 Hyarmendacil conquers the Harad. Gondor reaches the height of its power. About this time a shadow falls on Greenwood, and men begin to call it Mirkwood . . .

c. 1100 The Wise (the Istari and the chief Eldar) discover that an evil power has made a stronghold at Dol Guldur. It is thought to be one of the Nazgul."
ROTK Appendix B

" . . . when a thousand years of the Third Age had passed and the Shadow fell upon Greenwood the Great, the Silvan Elves ruled by Thranduil retreated before it as it spread ever northward, until at last Thranduil established his realm in the north-east of the forest and delved there a fortress and great halls underground. Oropher was of Sindarin origin, and no doubt Thranduil his son was following the example of king Thingol long before in Doriath; though his halls were not to be compared with Menegroth."
The Unfinished Tales, The Sindarin Princes of the Silvan Elves

If this is less than a thousand years into the Third Age, you're golden.

About whether nature-loving elves would live underground, though . . .

"In a great cave some miles within the edge of Mirkwood on its eastern side there lived at this time their greatest king. (. . .) In fact, the subjects of the king mostly lived and hunted in the open woods and had houses or huts on the ground and in the branches. ( . . .) The king's cave was his palace, and the strong place of his treasure, and the fortress of his people against their enemies."
The Hobbit, Flies and Spiders

Thranduil seems to live in the cave, and Tolkien describes Bilbo following him in and out as he goes to hunt and do business. Does Legolas live with Dad? Who knows?

[Kenaz]

Mar 15, 2009 18:19:25 GMT -6 jael said:

If this is less than a thousand years into the Third Age, you're golden.

Oh, good!

Mar 15, 2009 18:19:25 GMT -6 jael said:

Thranduil seems to live in the cave, and Tolkien describes Bilbo following him in and out as he goes to hunt and do business. Does Legolas live with Dad? Who knows?

Well, I can cross that Enchanted Stream when I come to it. The fact that this chapter takes place in Eryn Galen is rather incidental, and I don't foresee the characters being on that side of the Anduin again for at least a few hundred years, in which case can become a point of discussion that Dol Guldur has begun to taint the woods and Thranduil has moved everyone underground.

Thank you for the quotes-- they're very helpful!

[jael]

Thank you for the quotes-- they're very helpful!

You're welcome. There isn't all that much concerning Thranduil. Most of the really useful stuff is in the UT.

I don't foresee the characters being on that side of the Anduin again for at least a few hundred years, in which case can become a point of discussion that Dol Guldur has begun to taint the woods and Thranduil has moved everyone underground.

I'm currently working on a WIP which concerns the digging of the caverns. I'm leaving the precise year vague on purpose. I think it would first take a while for Thranduil to notice the neighborhood going downhill, so to speak, and then it would take a fair amount of time for him to get those caves dug and the people moved.

And you are quite right -- in my story some people are not going to be thrilled at the prospect of living underground.